Holy Shitte

[eCo]

I was not expecting Hussien to be executed this soon. I heard that he was to be executed in 30 days, but late night I was online and I saw the news that he was executed. When I heard he was going to be executed, I was kind of dissapointed because I felt that it symbolized that this new goverment in Iraq is not willing to be a progessive goverment. I just view hanging people as something of the past, and a primitive attempt at "justice". I'm not saying Saddam was a good guy, and I am not denying that he was brutal, but I think this was no way to end it. So much for this "new Iraq" that political prisoners get hung. Just the thought of people getting hung in these days is a huge turn off. The idea of execution alone just seems very backwards, but the fact that they decided to HANG him really makes me think more less about this new Iraq. So I guess Saddams gone, and now the shittes are in power. So much for progession.

Opinions?

[brockandsable]

The "meat" is in my pants.

[Aladdin]

I agree. When i heard he was going to be hanged, i thought "we're not in the 1800s are we?" Out of all the things that could be done, hanging him just seems so primitive, like you said. Sure, the guy is a bastard and all but be a bit more humain about these things.

I honestly don't think that he should have been excecuted in the first place. Capital punishment is barbaric IMO. There was enough killing in Iraq, there was no need for anymore. It sets a bad example. If the government are sentencing people to death, then your everyday people won't see it as being as wrong as it it. People should be imprisoned, not killed. No-one has the right to be killed. No-one. The guy would have suffered more by being imprisoned for the rest of his life.

EDIT: When i said "I agree", i didn't mean with E2's statement!

[brockandsable]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. ;D

[Trent Matsunoshin]

I for one don't see how this execution solves anything. He's a criminal in our eyes, but he's a martyr to terrorists everywhere, his execution gave him perpetual immortality.

[Reaper]

I would have wasted about 13 clips into this guy and then put him through a meat grinder and then perhaps feed him to any terrorist prisoners just for the fuck of it.... or a wood chipper, since his kids liked that so much. Or we could go the other way, and use the good old guillotine. Hanging him with barbedwire instead of a rope could have been more excitable.

I'm still in favor of Gladiator fights though, that should make a come back. Give a guy a set number of wins to accomplish and then he's free. And plus it would make for good gambling.

[brockandsable]

And that, my nigs, is the "meat" of the matter.

[Faster Pussycat!]

I just saw a video on MSNBC of Saddam with the noose around his neck. Personally, I’m glad he was executed, and in a very timely manner. He was a monster and the world is better with him dead, killed no less. I don’t think this will fire up the insurgents that much, but the impact I hope it has is showing all the crazy despots in the world that they will get what’s coming to them. I’m not sure about the Hanging though, it does seem a little outdated, but when you’re being executed on the grounds of crimes against humanity, something weird probably is just more appropriate.

[brockandsable]

So you're the only one without sin here?

What did Saddam ever do to you personally? His crimes were committed while he was in office. It's no different that a fucking hurricane wiping out a nation of peoples and the leader of that nation sits on his hands and lets people die and doesn't move to help until the majority of people point out to him that not acting fast enough is similar to murder. Yet you don't see people putting him on a burning stake? Where you there when the crimes were committed? Do you have a say in the matter? Exactly, you're just another American who is overwhelmingly unhappy inside (as well as bloodthirsty) who gets joy out of seeing other people suffer.

Hypocrite.

As the next few days and weeks will go on to prove, the murder of Hussein will do absolutely nothing to help peace efforts in that war-torn country. I'll even go out on a limb and say that this murder have started a war, one that the US will not be able to control. More fighting in that region means more American troops will continue to get toe tags. Oh yeah, and then there's the President of Iran who says that Israel, US, and England will soon be nonexistant.

[Scream]

^ yeouch.

I say we quit talking about it. Saddam is dead...good riddance. What they should have done is given him a sex change and had him raped by horny camels.

The real question is how the hell can't we find Osama? He probably lives in Ohio and owns a Bed and Breakfast.

[eCo]

LOL

I honestly think that Osama is dead.

[brockandsable]

And that's why Americans like you will continue to play the fool. We can find Saddam hiding in a hole in the ground, but we cannot find Osama bin Laden so the best way to disguise American failure is to write him off as dead. With the technology in this country? We can spend trillions on tecnological devices that can capture Black men and make "the citizens of our society safer" by locking them up and leaving them behind bars.

Truth is, this country has become more and more clueless in the last five to six years. We are not the Amazing Superpower we once were. Only the extreme right and Jesus people like you think otherwise. I love America, but deep down, I am hoping Iran and N. Korea will take the US to task just to humble us a bit. We think we're the shit, but all you have to do is travel outside this homeland and you'll realize otherwise when you discover that others are divided: Half hate us, and the other half are laughing us to scorn.

Now I'm all riled the fuck up, time to knock back a chicken cheesesteak or two.

[Scream]

You hope N. Korea and Iran will take us to task? I don't. I agree with some of your statements but everyone is subject to their opinion. I think saying things like "that's why Jesus people like you," is attacking a bit. No one says "that's why black people like you," just my opinion.

Now just waiting for E2's rebutal! Remember it's my birthday...bitch!

[Reaper]

The only reason the country is weak in your eyes, is because the party system of government is so fucked up with only trying to win elections that they can't actually do a fucking thing. If this were the 40's to early 60's people would have been behind finding out exactly what happened on 9/11, then fixing that problem, now if that leads to a war that brings about a better ending great. Japan bombed the fuck out of Pearl Harbor and the WHOLE COUNTRY minus a few protesters per the usual, were up in arms ready to kick some ass.

9/11 happens we have a small clue of the culprits and we go to war...kind of. Its really just a long, drawn out mission. Not a complete war. We went to the middle east without a total cause, "take out the terrorists" isn't exactly cut and dry. I'm not one to compare this war to Vietnam, because frankly the number difference is staggering and its not in the same catergory to be honest, but its being fought in the same fashion by the enemy. Hit and run, hide and seek, with some disguises. So instead of just looking for the blatantly obvious, I don't see why they aren't being as sneaky with moles or other operatives that can snuff out what the hell is going on from the inside, or closer to the inside at the least.

And blaming Bush for the hurricane tragedy is absolutely insane. Lets just completely forget that the mayor fucked his people, didn't use the resources available and neglected to do jack shit until some other idiot pointed a finger at Bush. The governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of "the chocolate city" is far more accountable for the problems that happened than Bush is. As it turned out, Bush did more than both of those asshats did in the end and yet they get no blame at all it seems.

[Faster Pussycat!]

brockandsable said:

So you're the only one without sin here?

What did Saddam ever do to you personally?

It doesn’t matter, it’s what he did to the hundreds of thousands of people he killed, and the millions of people who survived his reign that matters.

His crimes were committed while he was in office. It's no different that a fucking hurricane wiping out a nation of peoples and the leader of that nation sits on his hands and lets people die and doesn't move to help until the majority of people point out to him that not acting fast enough is similar to murder.

Actually, it’s a lot different. Saddam ordered the crimes that his army committed, he is directly responsible for the murders and genocide that he was hanged for. Bush never went to the climate and ordered it to attack the Gulf states. The blame for Katrina goes to nearly everyone involved: the Federal, State, and Local governments, residents for not being able to get their shit together and leave, past generations for fucking it up for their descendents, and the people that founded New Orleans in the first place.

Yet you don't see people putting him on a burning stake? Where you there when the crimes were committed? Do you have a say in the matter? Exactly, you're just another American who is overwhelmingly unhappy inside (as well as bloodthirsty) who gets joy out of seeing other people suffer.

I don’t get joy out of seeing other people suffer. I get joy seeing one of the greatest monsters of our generation being dethroned, tried, and punished for his crimes (not all of them, unfortunately).

As the next few days and weeks will go on to prove, the murder of Hussein will do absolutely nothing to help peace efforts in that war-torn country.

NOTHING is going to help peace efforts in Iraq. That country, along with the rest of the region, is in the state it is because it hasn’t been able to drag itself out of the dark ages. Fixing things there has to take part on nearly every facet of the Middle East, economically, socially, and politically. They aren’t going to be fixed in one lifetime, it’s going to take a long fucking time.

I'll even go out on a limb and say that this murder have started a war, one that the US will not be able to control. More fighting in that region means more American troops will continue to get toe tags.

Saddam’s execution isn’t going to be some great turning point. His followers will be more pissed off, but not enough for our forces, and rival insurgent groups to keep under control (well, as much control as they have now.)

Oh yeah, and then there's the President of Iran who says that Israel, US, and England will soon be nonexistant.

The execution of Saddam is a win for Ahmadinejad. Let’s not forget that Saddam fought a war with Iran, and was hanged for killing a few hundred of Ahmadinejad’s own Shia’s. Ahmadinejad doesn’t want to wipe out England or the U.S. because he makes too much money from us. Really, America has done more for him than we should of. We took out his enemies in Saddam and in the Taliban, and installed a Shia government in Baghdad.

[brockandsable]

Alright, let's take this from the top:

Scream - I hope North Korea and Iran step up do what's in the interest of their territories. It's okay for the United States to have weapons of mass destruction and to police the world, so to speak, even if other countries do not like it. However, when the tables are turned, and another country that we feel threatened by wants to produce weapons of the same caliber. it's suddenly a problem and economic sanctions are imposed. That's bullshit. It's okay for Johnny Handgrenade, Neighborhood Watchman to own a handgun, but when I go to the range with my permitted Glock .17, neighbors rally to have me evicted or get rid of the gun just because they feel I'm a threat. That's bullshit too. See what I did there? It's the same thing only on different levels but I can relate to it personally. War with Iran is inevitable at this point. I don't want to hide in basements and live in fear of being nuclear obliterated, but at the same time, I'm tired of the United States bullying other nations to do what's in its own interests. Bitch.

Reaper - BOOM! The World Trade Center falls before our eyes and the President and his nation are in mass hysteria. Shit, a couple of Arab guys were to blame for the attack, so let's start bombing Afghanastan and Iraq so we can get even with those terrorists. Nevermind that we have no actually proof as to who was really behind the whole thing; nevermind that the United States government only had leads and no real solid evidence; Nevermind that Bush had a personal vendetta against Saddam Hussein (RIP) because his dad didn't get the job done years earlier in the first Gulf War; let's just say it was bin Laden and his followers and start dropping bombs. The man is a war monger. He got us involved in a region that has been fighting since the days of Mesopotamia, and as a result, many families have lost loved ones unnecessarily. Tada! Years later, we're still in there and even more lives have been lost and the stubborn pres doen't want to pull out. Now, according to CNN and CSNBC, we are short on Army troops and if and when a war does break out with The Territory Known as Iran, we will be sorely handicapped in our ground attack. I guess it's become painfully obvious as to why Mr. Bush wants troops stationed near Fallujah.

And I do blame Bush and his administration for the handling of the Kattrina disaster. The hurricane was too much for local forces to handle and it was clear that it was national disaster caliber. When a national disaster occurs, it's the President's job to deploy the necessary personnel to help quell the matter. It's in his job description. God forbid a huge earthquake strikes Beverly Hills where all the white people live: 24 hours wouldn't pass before help would arrive to evacute the living carcasses. God forbid a couple of airplanes smack into a building in the country's wealthiest city; the national guard wouldn't waste time getting to the scene. But disaster strikes in an area that is overwhelmingly Black and for some odd reason that only the gods know, it takes DAYS before help arrives. Go figure. It's story of ever man who looks like me. Just like an Arab on an airplane whose a suspect just by the way he looks and what others have done before him. But i don't expect you to understand that for reasons that are too obvious to mention in this tiring post.

NIN Horror - Have you ever done something in your life where you were like "Oh shit! I've fucked up now!" And have you ever been punished for it? I can tell you that the answer is yes because there is not a living soul on this plane that it hasn't happened to. Now in the midsts of your regret, despite you perhaps being sorry for what you did, how would you feel if people across the world whom you've never met and do not know the full story of what happened, start telling your higher ups how and when you should be punished? Do know what it's like to be judged by people who do not know the full story? I do; I live it every fucking day. Saddam committed crimes, no doubt. But he was caught, disgraced, his kingdom fell to the ground and he was rotting in a prison. Let him rot and suffer, but don't kill him. Yeah, I hate capitol punishment.

[Trent Matsunoshin]

Real quick, I'd like to say that you can't really blame ANYONE for Katrina, a vastly underestimated natural occurrance. Katrina was a natural anomalous phenomenon. Did the government and the everyone involved fuck up in its aftermath? Absolutely. In fact, the only thing we can really blame the government for is "vast underestimations", or, as we working class call it, complacency.

Our American attitude of invincibility strives on even after 9/11, as many Americans seem to have already forgotten about 9/11, now in my line of work, I'm not allowed to forget such a date, most people (here in LA at least) saw 9/11 as a mere blip on the radar screen of American Self-Centrism.

Now, Doesn't all of this seem like history repeating itself? All of these recent events (meaning those since 9/11) seems eerily familiar to past historical events.

I'll make comparisons:

US at it's current state = Rome at it's peak
The US government is being run comparatively to the Roman Empire at it's Corinthian heights (3rd-4th Century AD), expanding US influence not necessarily in warlike imperialist fashion, but in continued propagandizing in American-Influenced media. It's called Force-Fed Consumerism. The US right now is prospering with a war going on, much like the Romans did, now before we condemn anyone for "crimes against humanity," we need to evaluate ourselves and ask, "Is what we're doing in Iraq liberation? Or a crime against their humanity?"

9/11 = Surge of the Bastille (1811 French Empire)
The Surge of the Bastille is seen as one of the most important and influential Rebellions in World History, as it symbolized monumental changes in all facets of life, much like 9/11 has. I honestly think that while we view 9/11 as a terrible act against us, we fail to realize or even attempt to acknowledge its real significance. And I believe that while the methods are unorthodox, these terrorists have a much deeper cause than what anyone is willing to tell us. Sometimes I honestly wonder what Al Qaeda's real message is, because it just seems absurd to me that Islam would condone the killings of ANYONE, no matter how bad they were.

Saddam's Execution = The Death of Che Guevara.
No matter how we look at it, this event is huge in scope. Saddam's execution brings him and his legacy to a point where it will never be forgotten and he will always have followers. Martyrdom, Saddam is seen not as a criminal, but as a man who died for his cause, the ultimate rebel who believed in his cause and stood for everything that Americans and Shiites didn't. He ended up killing a lot of people for doing what he believed was right, and only time will tell if he has far-reaching influence in the decades to come.

[Faster Pussycat!]

E2, the man tried to exterminate an entire ethnic group, wiping the Kurds out of existence was one of his main goals when he was in power. You can not compare just fuckin’ up to Genocide.

[Reaper]

As far as E2's post went, its completely irrelevant given he's giving out CNN and MSNBC "facts." Even if we're "short" of troops in Iraq, we've still got more than enough required given that they are actually given a goddamn plan, besides "look for them." Thats bullshit, because they look like all the rest of the population. They aren't combat dressed for the most part, they are in casual clothes. And since they work with roadside bombs or mines when they are out in the open, chances are they aren't seen. Which I must admit is a hell of a tactic, and it works because theres nobody trying to figure them out from the inside. There needs to be a way to find out whats going on, where its going on, and how its gonna happen. The way its going down over there now is, they find the easy targets... and go after those. The only information they pay attention to is when there is a "high level" Operative, and then they bomb the area and hope they hit him.

And you can spout off about how Bush fucked up and sat on his ass while people died or whatever you want. But given the quickness that the place filled up, theres real good shot that a lot of them died within a few hours anyway. They should have hightailed it when they were told to. Or better yet, the mayor...remember him... he's the black guy that needs to actually be held accountable for his part in sitting on his ass too... should have used the fucking plan that was already written out for him, and those buses that he let become water toys... he didn't use, because they would be uncomfortable.

And Saddam being a Martyr... to the minority of the militant muslims out there.. WHOOPIE FUCKING DOO. He's still a dead waste of human life that can no longer plot anymore crimes. Che Guevara, was also as useless and also better off not being around. Besides, most of the people that where those nifty little shirts with him in green, red, and yellow don't even know who he is. And if they do know who he is, they don't know what he did. He's just a guy on a shirt, that teenagers wear.

[brockandsable]

ninhorror said:

E2, the man tried to exterminate an entire ethnic group, wiping the Kurds out of existence was one of his main goals when he was in power......

So he did.

My question to you is were you, any relatives, or even anyone you know part of such a holocaust? If not, why play the judge and rejoice in another man's murder?

And Reaper, I'm not turning this personal, it's just politics. < Read that again and see if you can find it within your simple being to do the same.

[Faster Pussycat!]

Guerrilla warfare, it’s how we beat the British in the late 1700’s, how Ho Chi Minh secured Viet Nam, how the Taliban kicked Russia out of Afghanistan, and how the insurgents have been able to continue on in Iraq.

My question to you is were you, any relatives, or even anyone you know part of such a holocaust? If not, why play the judge and rejoice in another man's murder?

It doesn't matter if Saddam personally did nothing to me. He was hanged for crimes against humanity, because the scale and malice of his crimes were in offence to the entire human race.

[brockandsable]

This is why I hate politics. Why can't we argue about something more meaningful like cocaine or Asian "massage" parlors? I fold my cards on the table gents...

[Reaper]

I did, not everything is about E2, I find it funny that you see CNN and MSNBC as anything more than a biased waste of airtime. They've never once done anything MAJOR to show even a small amount of the happiness some people have expressed in Iraq. Its always the deathtoll, how we should run away, why Bush is a failure, or domestically how the economy is down the shitcan even though the numbers show otherwise. Also blaming the entire Aftermath of Katrina on Bush or his administration is retarded. Thats almost like saying an earthquake hit LA and took out a few of our posters... where was I? Why didn't I help them.

The answer would be the same, there was a plan, the state and city governments ignored it and let shit happen on there own while the mayor sat up in a swanky high rise. If you only want to look at these issues from 1 side, thats your problem, but I'm giving the you opposite side. My total response given all the sides is this

NEITHER the hurricane or Saddam matter to me in the slightest. Its just good to see that some monstrocity of a person got the "eye for an eye" thing that they preach thrown right back in his face. And the hurricane, those people saw it coming, and shouldn't have fucked around so long. Me and my family and all of my shit would have been gone. And in the case of those that couldn't take their stuff with them... at least save your own ass.

EDIT: This was in response to E2 flattering himself with thinking I'm making it personal.

[brockandsable]

No, not everything is about E2, short stuff. And I suppose your sources are correct because, well, they're yours. And everyone knows that if Chris says it, then it's bound to be the truth.

[Spackle]

Man, I thought this thread was about something interesting. This is just the same ol' shit from different ass-holes.