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Post by brockandsable on Sept 4, 2006 16:40:03 GMT 1
If they move Cena to Smackdown!, I want Cena v. The Undertaker at No Mercy.
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Post by Stare on Sept 5, 2006 19:00:42 GMT 1
I don't. I didnt like their previous encounters.
If Cena faces Orton next week on Raw (which looks like a possible plan), then he is definetly going to SD! That is the only reason they would blow off that feud so quickly.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 19:29:02 GMT 1
I don't really know what the plan is with Orton right now. You've got Edge as the top heel right now and the way I see it, Hunter needs to reclaim his "throne"; it's long overdue. If Triple H/Edge is what they have in store for Mania 23, then the only other thing I can think of outside of the RAW main event is Orton/Michaels in another legend-killer match. How many legend killer matches will it take to put Orton in that World Title spot. Seems to me WWE still lacks faith in him; the same kind of faith that saw him dethroned one month into a title reign two years ago.
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Post by Stare on Sept 5, 2006 20:36:17 GMT 1
^I believe HHH had a lot to do with the title being taken off of him then.
Anyways, I dont think it's so much a lack of faith as it is Orton's attitude and problems. I wouldnt put the title on a guy who's been suspended twice for bascially the same thing either.
But, the way I see it, they're pushing Carlito towards the main event. They just need to better utilize him. Give him more mic time and possibly bring back the Cabana.
But, I see the Main Event picture like this on Raw:
TOP HEELS: Edge, Orton, Umaga, Nitro
TOP FACES: HHH, Michaels, Carlito, Jeff Hardy
^that's the problem with centering your show around and creating just one huge face and one huge heel . . . everything else has no credibility, besices guys like HHH and Michaels.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 20:39:52 GMT 1
Wow, you've got Carlito in front of Hardy? Interesting. I thought leaving Carly off the SummerSlam card did some serious damage to his credibility. A year ago, he seemed destined for the stars. Ready for primetime. And now it's as if he is an afterthought.
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Post by Aladdin on Sept 5, 2006 20:40:05 GMT 1
Orton would have been a credible World Title contender if he had just won his feud with the Undertaker. His loss in Hell In A Cell knocked Orton down the ladder so much. Taker didn't need the win, Orton did. Following that match, Orton was jobbed out to Benoit 3 times (a couple via DQ) so he doesn't seem like he can hang with the big dogs. He was the one pinned at Mania 22. He came back and was killed by Angle. He lost to Hogan and now it looks like he's going to lose to Carlito.
So, he just hasn't won enough top tier match to qualify him as a World Title contender. A fued with Michaels would be nice and so would a program with HHH.
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Post by Stare on Sept 5, 2006 20:42:06 GMT 1
HHH vs. Orton would be nice for nostalgic reasons, and would help if he went over HHH. But, we're nearing Mania, and the closer we get, the more I feel like The King of Kings will return to his throne by then
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 20:43:47 GMT 1
Also, Sayon, Eddie's death may have altered some of the World plans. I think the Orton/Taker HIAC was originally slated to take place at Survivor Series, Orton was scheduled to win the Royal Rumble, and then eventually defeat Batista at Mania. Neither Angle nor Rey were part of the original plans. But it all changed since they decided to "make" money off Eddie's death with the Rey title run that went nowhere quickly. In fact, it demoted the World Title's cred in the eyes of many fans.
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Post by Stare on Sept 5, 2006 20:46:39 GMT 1
^Batista's absence also sent that into a spiral.
I think the plan was for Eddie to attempt to turn on Batista with the whole "friend" storyline between them. I think they were really going to let it run it's course to where fan's eventually thought Eddie really was a face with Batista, and then turn on him and empower the "lie, cheat, and steal" gimmick. Then, Batista got injured, and the plan was going to be to give Eddie the title from what i understood. Who knows where it was going after that.
Basically, Angle would've never been on SD! & Rey would've never won the rumble if Eddie and Batista had both still been around. A lot of things definetly changed.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 20:52:17 GMT 1
Smackdown just fell apart last year. Never have I seen a wrestling promotion tumble the way it did in 2005. It must have been some serious Karma. And it all began by mistreating Christian Cage. An Edge/Christian feud right now would be money in the bank.
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Post by Stare on Sept 5, 2006 21:06:01 GMT 1
Christian had SO MUCH potential to be used as a main eventer. With his comments on Cena, and his natural charisma, he was on his way and the fans were pushing for it.
But, I'm reminded of what Viscera said in an interview when asked why his push just stopped when his "World's Largest Love Machine" gimmick was going on.
The reporter asked "Why was your character taken off for a couple of weeks? The fans seemed to be into you"
Viscera responded "Because, there are some people that you just aren't supposed to be more popular then." <--- he was referring to Cena.
IMO, the WWE made the same mistake they've made numerous times, and they failed to push someone that the fans backed because they basically don't want to push that person, and here I was thinking that the fans were what mattered.
Christian vs. Cena would've been CLASSIC (from a promo standpoint)! And, if Christian had been pushed, with Edge's current main event status, that could've been a classic feud as well.
Though, I do think it is amusing that Christian and Edge both held World Titles at the same time. Edge & Christian ruled the wrestling world briefly.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 21:14:40 GMT 1
Viscera responded "Because, there are some people that you just aren't supposed to be more popular then." <--- he was referring to Cena. Damn. And here I thought the old WCW editing the crowd's pops were lame. That's some sad news right there.....
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Post by Stare on Sept 5, 2006 21:36:32 GMT 1
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic. Not that I want Viscera as a main eventer, but if the guy is getting the reaction and the backing, throw him at it and see how it goes.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 21:59:58 GMT 1
This bit of news tells me that WWE (the creative team and the powers that be) are still stuck in the old school in they stick to storylines that were planned out long in advance and do not deviate from it. So when injuries occur, last minute changes that do not fit the bill are made, and thus an inferior product. The same can be said for crowd reactions these days. In the Attitude era, the storylines would bend in favor of the man getting the most fan reaction, albeit cheering or jeering. Steve Austin's rise and the Rock's success can be based on this. Now things seem to have dwindled backwards. Cena is getting booed mercilessly and yet still remains a face. As if moving him to a different brand is going to change any of that. Christian was cheered and they got rid of him. Whereas Finlay was getting no reaction whatsoever (outside the leprachaun bit) yet they put the US belt on him. It's seems backwards. Kennedy getting the belt seems to be a move that was long overdue, but with his enthusiasm, ability to work the crowd and his natural "feel" for in-ring action, he should be main eventing given the main event status on Smackdown. Batista seems to have lost the momentum that was created with he and Hunter and him and Eddie.
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Post by Aladdin on Sept 5, 2006 22:52:19 GMT 1
I was thinking the same thing about Batista. Before he got injured, he was a decent worker, not amazing, but decent. He knew what he did well and stuck to those all the while increasing his moveset. Now that he's returned he's lost the magic. I feel he thinks he's a lot more important that he really is. Before he seemed humble and that's what was appealing about him. He doesn't deserve the title IMO.
As for your Finlay and Kennedy comments, i beg to differ. Finlay is excellent. His in-ring work, his mic work and his charisma, are all great. He's over. He deserved the US Title, and deserves a Main Event run. Kennedy on the other hand is in the same category as Batista. Since returning he's lost "it". He hasn't been doing the intro like he did before and it just seems less special. He isn't working to well. He has gotten fat. However, in the last few weeks he has seemed to up his game. Hopefully he can keep up his performances because he has loads of potential to be great. This US Title run and some good feuds might be what he needs to step it up a gear.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 5, 2006 23:24:54 GMT 1
I'm not questioning Finlay's work ethic, I just think his crowd reation is next to non-existant. No doubt he gives it his all in that squared circle, as seen by many of his matches with Benoit. And at his age, he does what he does better than some of the athletes who are twenty years younger. His ability in the ring is not in question, his crowd reaction is.
And it's becoming painfully obvious that Dave was carried by both Hunter and Eddie G. With Hunter, he had this mystique about him. He was spoke less and kicked ass more. Couple that with the fact that the crowd wanted the belt off Hunter, badly, it was a recipe for success. Dave seems more cocky now, as if he's the Rock returning from a long hiatus. And as we all know, that is not the case. Not by a longshot.
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Post by Stare on Sept 6, 2006 0:42:25 GMT 1
As much as I don't like Batista, the only reason him and Kennedy have lost the magic was because the way they were re-introduced was a load of crap. Batista came back and lost to Kennedy twice, and then beat him finally and was thrown straight into the World Title hunt? The fans arent' as stupid and gullible as they used to be.
As for Kennedy, the way he was brought back was utter garbage. You either have to do the surprise return in a BIG MATCH element (like Jeff Hardy returning against Edge) or you have to hype their return. Kennedy was brougth back against Matt Hardy, I believe. But I may be wrong.
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 6, 2006 0:50:52 GMT 1
And he went over Hardy. The only problem was is that Hardy has been decimated so much at this point that him putting others over holds no water at this point. Kennedy was HUGE his first run around, and then the poor reintroduction. But a lot of the situation can be blamed on "elevated enzymes" in the liver to Lashley and others that caused reasons for change. I felt as if it should have been Ken Kennedy reintroduced on SNME and not Batista. Since Bastista was going straight for the belt, his return should have been on the GAB PPV.
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Post by Aladdin on Sept 6, 2006 22:41:14 GMT 1
Actually, if i remember correctly, Kennedy first match back was a complete squash against Scotty 2 Hotty. Following that he was placed in squashed after squashes. Probably because he was getting cheered and WWE decided that he should establish himself as a heel before getting a feud, but the squashes continued for no reason for too long. I don't think the guy deserves the US Title even though he has the potential.
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