Is the Internet ruining wrestling?

[Stare]

I'll share my opinion on this later on when I'm not at work, but I thought I'd get everyone else's opinion on this.

so, yeah, in your opinion, is the internet ruining wrestling?

[Simz]

No. it's makin wrestling better. We are the real fans that they have to please. It makes them work harder. And not make stupid decisions like makeing mark Henry Champ!

[Cactus]

there are pro's and cons, I am in work at the mo so i will do a list and post it up for people to argue over

[Faster Pussycat!]

The Intronet does nothing except open up new alternatives for fans. The Internet can't ruin wrestling, only wrestlers, wrestling bookers, writers, promoters, etc. can ruin wrestling.

[eCo]

Curse you Stare, when I was going to make my return here, I was thinking of making this thread

As for this topic, my answer is:

YES!!!

This is one of my main points I was stating in the past few months. Simz no offense to you but you are the root of blind optomism. If internet fans are the "real" wrestling fans, then why do they constantly bash the WWE, but they still tune in 4 times a week to watch WWE wrestling. NIN, the bookers, wrestlers, and promoters may run the company, but the decessions are always based on the fans. Batista and Cena were headlining wrestlemania 21 because the fans went crazy for them. Beniot and Eddie, were headlining wrestlemania 20, because the whole theme of wrestlemania 20 was, only people who loved the sport deserved to stay, while Goldberg and Brock were the "rejects", and the fans were swayed by that.

What it all comes down to is that, the majority of wresting fans, and the people who really matter is the mass crowd out there, more commonly the marks. Why should the WWE constantly listen to a minority of assholes on the internet (more commonly the smarks), who just constantly spew shit out of their ass, and over analyze simple entertainment. The reason why the internet is a plague to the whole wrestling world, is that smarks do have followers, individuals like Simz (too optomistic) and NIN (too pesamistic) follow along with them, and they continue to speak out of their ass in large numbers and pollute the whole wrestling media world with bullshit that spreads the the majority.

Basically this all revolves around the whole chaos of democracy, which is virtually a plague to the whole world in general. The fans in general ruined wrestling, and it was very obvious during the Stone Cold hype. Because of this we have hero/faces who are violent against women and have criminal intentions, fans chant "we want puppies" when divas are out (this also lead to the destruction of the womens division), and the whole theme of wrestling is adult entertaiment and themes. This just goes against my traditional idealistic views of wrestling, in which a face is a face, a heel is a heel, and the whole plots are aimed for more of a general audience, rather than some overweight, redneck, american male. Don't get me wrong though, I think that Cena and Batista make perfect faces, because they have some of the old values of a face, but all in all, the storylines and enviroments are too R rated, and many faces are being cheered for BECAUSE they are involved in criminal actions.

This is democracy for you all.

[Faster Pussycat!]

Eco, why did you try to answer the question with vague and childish insults directed at Simz and myself?

Regardless, Eco, what you can’t seem to realize is that wrestling is just reflecting society. In the 80’s, there were clear cut faces and heels because we as Americans were all united against Communist Russia. That meant that people would always look at things in black and white. And because American society was more conservative, you had to do shit for a general audience. I mean just look at all the trouble 2 Live Crew got into in that same time period, with their “As Nasty As They Wanna Be” album. Now if they put out that same record today, nobody would even lift an eyebrow. Now today, it’s totally different because in society now there are no clear cut heroes or villains, and it’s now cool to be a Pimp, and it’s practically expected of teenage girls to dress/act like floozies.

Eco, I disagree that the fans are ruining wrestling, because a fed does not have to cater to their every whim. And Eco, you are only referring to the WWE, and I didn’t want to say it, but I feel that they are the most responsible for ruining wrestling.

Now what the internet does to help fix that is open up the door to other feds a disenfranchised fan couldn’t previously access. The internet is saving fans of wrestling that still want to like wrestling, and there is nothing anyone can say to disprove that.

[Simz]

Ecos, you pretty much said. If they are over push them. WHAT!!! So If Marky Henry gets over he should headline WM. You are saying that and that you don't think that wrestling abilty matters!

[eCo]

thewwedude said:

Ecos, you pretty much said. If they are over push them. WHAT!!! So If Marky Henry gets over he should headline WM. You are saying that and that you don't think that wrestling abilty matters!

I was speaking in a factual business sense. The WWE is a business, and in a business money is what matters. Goldberg, and Ultimate Warrior were shitty wrestlers, but they were put in the spot light. So by any chance Mark Henry gets well over with the crowd, unfortunately the WWE will have NO CHOICE to give him that push.

On a way more important notice, Simz, I notice that you really need to brush up on grammer and spelling. I know you are on your winter break, but this is no excuse kiddo. Lets say your mother found out

As for you NIN, one thing I do have to give you credit for is that you are a free thinker. However, when things are complicated, you blindly turn to the WWE for the problem. The whole wrestling world (not just the WWE) is plagued. I could go on and on how many reasons there are, but the internet just makes it worse.

As a matter of fact, the internet also puts a negative effect on feds like TNA and RoH. The feds you all so love and cherish. Feds such as those, turn to the internet crowd (mostly WWE haters) for decessions. A negative example of this is seeing Christian as a face on TNA. The first time when I saw Christian as an all time hero made me even feel more miserable, because from the spot, I knew it was because of the internet. TNA invested so much into Christian and It truly isn't a good thing to overrate the IWC's opinion that much.

Regardless, Eco, what you can’t seem to realize is that wrestling is just reflecting society. In the 80’s, there were clear cut faces and heels because we as Americans were all united against Communist Russia. That meant that people would always look at things in black and white. And because American society was more conservative, you had to do shit for a general audience. I mean just look at all the trouble 2 Live Crew got into in that same time period, with their “As Nasty As They Wanna Be” album. Now if they put out that same record today, nobody would even lift an eyebrow. Now today, it’s totally different because in society now there are no clear cut heroes or villains, and it’s now cool to be a Pimp, and it’s practically expected of teenage girls to dress/act like floozies.

The Cold War really had nothing to do with it. It is the same thing now, when the US is fighting the arabs in the middle-east. Besides the communist really aren't evil, I had communist related beliefs back in HS a few years ago. There really was no black and white picture back then in the 80s. You are right about there is no clear cut out for heroes or villians, but there damn well should be. A pimp is someone who prostitutes women, and that is not so hero-like. Teenage girls who dress and act secductively are just brainwashed by the US media, and it is all part of society's sexiest structure. The reason why Cena is a good face, because he is a "rebel hero" and there is nothing wrong with that. Batista is a good face because, he is a fiece and powerful, but at the same time, he is a defender and a good guy. But the whole idea of just destroying shit, and attacking inocent people (like Kane) goes against MY idealistic views of a face.

[PThaGangsta]

Wrestling is already dead, the writers are shit. They should use the internet in a better way... Like stealing some kid's idea.

[KillerSundin (Formerly HBK)]

I am split on this one. The pros are that TNA or ROH are listening to us to make smart decisions that we want to see(eg Christian as a face). Another one is that everyone didn't like Randy Orton as a face so what did the WWE do? Switch him back to a heel. They listened to us. But, back in the Attitude era which we saw great television and interesting storylines (eg Hart Foundation vs DX or Stone Cold vs The Rock) had very little Internet fans or Smarks. But some people are hypocrites. They hate WWE for not making Christian a face. But when he is a face on TNA. They complain because some Smarks are never satisfied. I am not satisfied until Batista and John Cena lose the title.

[soulreaper]

Hey, Prophet, guess what.... this isn't a political debate thread. This is a wrestling debate thread.... and if I remember correctly and I do. EVERY GODDAMN RUSSIAN or "RUSSIAN" in wrestling during the 80's was a heel because Communist Russia at the time was the biggest threat to more than 1 country. It wasn't just a US view, you could at least get some of your facts straight before you engage your keyboard. The US wasn't the one making people hate russians, the russian political system was doing that. Even Russians didn't want to be in Russia. Ask Nikolai Volkoff, as somebody AND a wrestler who was actually there..in person... and not just some outsider like you and me.

Russians during the 80's were heel because communism, which is a proven failure to evey country that tries it, took away from what people knew was TRUE freedom. In the opinions of PEOPLE in general and not just the US, Communism=Evil.

But I've finally figured out why I don't like reading a lot of what you have to say. You have a negative feeling towards A) Peoples freedom to choose whether or not they want to be a slut, asshole, jackass, ignorant, or intelligent person, B) you don't like anything that gives a person any sort of alternative view from your own...such as the internet, and C) You speak out as a means to get noticed. Some longwinded response criticizing pretty much every other person you deem as "against your opinion" while making sure to reinterate your already well known opinion...meh been done. They come a Dime a dozen.

MY opinion, whether it matters at this point or not, is that the internet has been good nor bad for the wrestling business as a whole, because when the Internet was just getting mainstream usage and a lot of people were using it...wrestling boomed, people had sites everywhere about wrestling, and now the internet is more popular than just about everything and Wrestling is pretty much in the shit can. The internet didn't make wrestling popular in the mid nineties, storylines and the two major rivals going at each others throat did. Wrestling is in the shits now because there is no reason to have a fuss over it. Nothing about wrestling is compelling to people anymore, just for us fans.

People tuned in to see if somebody would make a better product week in and week out, when one of those products died, well theres nobody to fight and so the product went stale. The internet didn't do anything new, their have been rumor lines and news lines for a long time. Pay services, but they were there. And the internet is just that, a news and rumor hotsheet.

[Spackle]

WWE pushes people in spite of the fans. They shove crap down our throats until they become world champion material. And then it backfires on them, when even the average "Knows how to just enjoy themselves" fan is booing the shit out of Cena. If they were smart, they'd take advantage of this by taking the title off him, and turning him heel like the rock. God knows they'd screw it up, though. They've tried to make him the next Stone Cold, but that hasn't gone well.

On the net fans: WWE doesn't care about them, so they're not going to make any changes concerning them. So they're not ruining anything, no matter how ungodly annoying they are.

[Stare]

What seems to be in with the WWE fans right now are the bad guys being faces. The Rock & Stone Cold were nothing near what a stereotypical face is. They went out and played a heel, if nothing else. The Undertaker was never a face character, but he always gets huge pops. Ric Flair is a face right now, and he is still referred to as "The Dirtiest Player in the Game". Eddie Guerrero's motto was "Lie, Cheat, & Steal" when he was at his peak in popularity. Angle is playing an anti-american role right now, and he is getting cheered over John Cena. Why are these guys being cheered? Cause it's suddenly cool to be an intense, badass who supports/embodies what used to be wrong, but has become socially acceptable.

If Cena was an asshole, and always showed intensity instead of trying to be funny, and spouting off remarks like "It's what the people want", and "These people want the truth" that are nothing more than what a face is "supposed to say", he'd be a lot more popular. You can't boo a bad guy who is a face, for some reason. It just feels wrong, I can't explain it.

Cena is not a rebel, Ecos. Cena is a stereotype. He tries to make his view the same as the fans, but wrestling fans aren't buying it. Saying what the people want to hear is not being a rebel. Stone Cold was a rebel, cause he stood up to his boss, drank beer, and flipped everyone off, which at the time was unheard of in the wrestling world. Cena needs to be turned heel, just like Spackle said.

Cena is NOT a good face, because if he lost the belt right now, nobody would want him to get it back.



EDIT: Also: The Rock, Stone Cold, Ric Flair, The Undertaker, Eddie Guerrero, and Kurt Angle were/are all great in the ring, or can string a match together. Cena is terrible in the ring and can't string a match together.

Wrestling fans aren't stupid, they know if you suck. That's why Cena is beginning to be boo'ed more and more.

[eCo]

hbk said:

I am split on this one. The pros are that TNA or ROH are listening to us to make smart decisions that we want to see(eg Christian as a face). Another one is that everyone didn't like Randy Orton as a face so what did the WWE do? Switch him back to a heel. They listened to us. But, back in the Attitude era which we saw great television and interesting storylines (eg Hart Foundation vs DX or Stone Cold vs The Rock) had very little Internet fans or Smarks. But some people are hypocrites. They hate WWE for not making Christian a face. But when he is a face on TNA. They complain because some Smarks are never satisfied. I am not satisfied until Batista and John Cena lose the title.

Cena and Batista are the best faces the WWE had since The Rock and other big names from the attitude era. The WWE has something good, so why change it. Here is a critical rule people really need to consider: If it's not broke, don't fix it.

soulreaper said:

Russians during the 80's were heel because communism, which is a proven failure to evey country that tries it, took away from what people knew was TRUE freedom. In the opinions of PEOPLE in general and not just the US, Communism=Evil.

But I've finally figured out why I don't like reading a lot of what you have to say. You have a negative feeling towards A) Peoples freedom to choose whether or not they want to be a slut, asshole, jackass, ignorant, or intelligent person, B) you don't like anything that gives a person any sort of alternative view from your own...such as the internet, and C) You speak out as a means to get noticed. Some longwinded response criticizing pretty much every other person you deem as "against your opinion" while making sure to reinterate your already well known opinion...meh been done. They come a Dime a dozen.

You got it all wrong Reaper.

A) I accept people for who they are. If they choose to be a jackass, then fine, they can be a jackass. I just find it irritating that they choose to be a jackass/slut/ or whatever for the hell of it, and most of the time it is the case. So I hold my right to bitch about it.

B)Oh no, I look on all sides of the story. But consider this, these wrestling forums in general, don't really have people who know a lot about the wrestling industry. Two years ago at TWH, there were people like Rogue, Happy Noodle Boy, Marcus, and Curve who all had their opinions and not only brought out interesting points, but also knew what they were talking about. Even Nature Boy Liam (NBL) always knew what he was talking about.

Here at p2p I honestly think that the most knowledgable posters here are UKG, Rocky, Shinns, and Stare. I don't know if I consider myself to be in their level or not, but it always turns out that I was always proven right in the past 2 years. Other than that we have people like NIN, Spackle, Simz (no offense), and that Chadwick kid who just spew out crap and don't even know what they are talking about.

C) I just say things from my side of the story. I post in these wrestling forums as well as other wrestlings forums because I feel it is my obligation to bitch about smarks and other e-goons who just spew shit at the McMahon family and the WWE, while they themselves have no clue what so ever to run a multi-billion dollar business.

floorstare said:

What seems to be in with the WWE fans right now are the bad guys being faces. The Rock & Stone Cold were nothing near what a stereotypical face is. They went out and played a heel, if nothing else. The Undertaker was never a face character, but he always gets huge pops. Ric Flair is a face right now, and he is still referred to as "The Dirtiest Player in the Game". Eddie Guerrero's motto was "Lie, Cheat, & Steal" when he was at his peak in popularity. Angle is playing an anti-american role right now, and he is getting cheered over John Cena. Why are these guys being cheered? Cause it's suddenly cool to be an intense, badass who supports/embodies what used to be wrong, but has become socially acceptable.

If Cena was an asshole, and always showed intensity instead of trying to be funny, and spouting off remarks like "It's what the people want", and "These people want the truth" that are nothing more than what a face is "supposed to say", he'd be a lot more popular. You can't boo a bad guy who is a face, for some reason. It just feels wrong, I can't explain it.

Cena is not a rebel, Ecos. Cena is a stereotype. He tries to make his view the same as the fans, but wrestling fans aren't buying it. Saying what the people want to hear is not being a rebel. Stone Cold was a rebel, cause he stood up to his boss, drank beer, and flipped everyone off, which at the time was unheard of in the wrestling world. Cena needs to be turned heel, just like Spackle said.

Cena is NOT a good face, because if he lost the belt right now, nobody would want him to get it back.



EDIT: Also: The Rock, Stone Cold, Ric Flair, The Undertaker, Eddie Guerrero, and Kurt Angle were/are all great in the ring, or can string a match together. Cena is terrible in the ring and can't string a match together.

Wrestling fans aren't stupid, they know if you suck. That's why Cena is beginning to be boo'ed more and more.

If you noticed something about The Rock, when he just turned face he was still an asshole. But as time went on, he slowly turned into the more classic version of the face. It was then down to the point where he would go out and help another face out, just because it was the right thing to do. Same thing with Batista, but in more of a hasty fashion. Cena is what a rebel face should be. He speaks his mind, and fights against Eric Bischoff for the people. He is still a good guy to other faces, instead of attacking everyone. As for booing a face that acts like a criminal I have done it before. During the whole Bret v/s Stone Cold angle, I was cheering for Bret Hart when I was 13 years old. Even recently, the moment when Kane attacked Lita, I considered Edge to be the face and Kane to be the heel. I'm just a traditionalist, and there is no reason why the WWE shouldn't take that path again.

[Spackle]

Spewing out crap, eh? Yeah, I do that alot.

I won't bother posting responses to your wrestling related posts anymore, considering you feel the need to insult me now, yet I don't believe you've ever dignified my arguments with a response. You've broken my heart.

[Hercules]

I'm on the fence, it's good to be able to discuss your views with wrestling fans all over the world but at the same time, too much news ruins things, spoilers, injury returns and stuff like that take away from the show cause by the time you watch it, you're already going to know whats going to happen.

[KillerSundin (Formerly HBK)]

Cena is one of the worst faces ever. That is why he is getting booed. On a side note, Ecos. Wrestling has changed. Face it and adapt. That is what I did. Sure it is okay to not like it but don't call us idiots or break Spackle's heart.

[Trent Matsunoshin]

This may be my ego talking, but I believe I know more about the wrestling business than almost anyone here.

Anyway, on to the question at hand:

I don't think that the internet is ruining wrestling at all, the fact that the internet makes WWE alternatives (e.g: ROH, Puro, etc.) available to just about anyone who is willing to look makes the internet a hot commodity for the wrestling community; and by wrestling community, I don't mean smarks, I mean actual wrestling fans.

The idea that the internet ruins wrestling is because in the public forum that is the web, people such as myself and other posters on this board give opinions and predictions, and if we're right, we criticize, primarily because of the WWE's dominance of all wrestling-related media facets with the exception of the internet.

Internet fans and smarks are always looking for the WWE to continue the revoltionary ideals and standards it set for itself back in the glory days of the late 90s, and therefore are highly critical of the WWE (remember, it is the most exposed and publicized wrestling product in the world) when, considering that they no longer have to, they don't meet the lofty standards of us netheads.

So, you can't blame the internet for ruining wrestling, you can however, blame the lack of competition in terms of wrestling products that may surpass the WWE in quality, but doesn't come close to the WWE in terms of gross quantity and buyrates, the slow decimation of wrestling can be blamed on the lack of quality product force-fed to the masses (which, for the most part, only see WWE on their TVs weekly on big-time networks). The glory day bandwagon fans that made up 80% of the sold out arenas aren't fans anymore, and since that was where both the WWE and WCW made their revenue, the WWE now tries to consistently lure a new fanbase, only having teenagers and die-hards pay for your product (in dwindling numbers, might I add) is not good for revenue.

Also, the internet doesn't put a lot of money into company pockets, and while it does create revenue, and give great exposure, it hasn't been good for the bottom line (take a look at TNA's revenue sheet).

The wrestling world right now is at a rebuilding stage (even though the WWE doesn't seem to notice this), it's been downhill since '02 and while the WWE is blind to this, none of the other feds have been able to capitalize on a market ripe for the taking. No revenue = no competition = no hope for the remaining fanbase. The internet didn't ruin wrestling, wrestling and it's seemingly undying marriage to sports entertainment did.

Anyway, that's it. I'll type mpre when it comes to me....

[eCo]

trent said:

This may be my ego talking, but I believe I know more about the wrestling business than almost anyone here.

Anyway, on to the question at hand:

I don't think that the internet is ruining wrestling at all, the fact that the internet makes WWE alternatives (e.g: ROH, Puro, etc.) available to just about anyone who is willing to look makes the internet a hot commodity for the wrestling community; and by wrestling community, I don't mean smarks, I mean actual wrestling fans.

The idea that the internet ruins wrestling is because in the public forum that is the web, people such as myself and other posters on this board give opinions and predictions, and if we're right, we criticize, primarily because of the WWE's dominance of all wrestling-related media facets with the exception of the internet.

Internet fans and smarks are always looking for the WWE to continue the revoltionary ideals and standards it set for itself back in the glory days of the late 90s, and therefore are highly critical of the WWE (remember, it is the most exposed and publicized wrestling product in the world) when, considering that they no longer have to, they don't meet the lofty standards of us netheads.

So, you can't blame the internet for ruining wrestling, you can however, blame the lack of competition in terms of wrestling products that may surpass the WWE in quality, but doesn't come close to the WWE in terms of gross quantity and buyrates, the slow decimation of wrestling can be blamed on the lack of quality product force-fed to the masses (which, for the most part, only see WWE on their TVs weekly on big-time networks). The glory day bandwagon fans that made up 80% of the sold out arenas aren't fans anymore, and since that was where both the WWE and WCW made their revenue, the WWE now tries to consistently lure a new fanbase, only having teenagers and die-hards pay for your product (in dwindling numbers, might I add) is not good for revenue.

Also, the internet doesn't put a lot of money into company pockets, and while it does create revenue, and give great exposure, it hasn't been good for the bottom line (take a look at TNA's revenue sheet).

The wrestling world right now is at a rebuilding stage (even though the WWE doesn't seem to notice this), it's been downhill since '02 and while the WWE is blind to this, none of the other feds have been able to capitalize on a market ripe for the taking. No revenue = no competition = no hope for the remaining fanbase. The internet didn't ruin wrestling, wrestling and it's seemingly undying marriage to sports entertainment did.

Anyway, that's it. I'll type mpre when it comes to me....

I dissagree with a few things there. First off the wrestling world in general isn't in a "re-building" stage. It is in a slump, or more technically, a recession. It happened in the early 90s, when the WWF was scrambling for big names such as Lex Luger and Diesel, just like what the WWE is doing right now with the "new talent". I said it before and I will say it again, things in the general wrestling world will just get worse, before things get any better. At one point I thought that things were going to get somewhat better, but things are just the same, even though I do admit that the WWE came a way from 2003.

"(even though the WWE doesn't seem to notice this)"



There is nothing you, me, or anyone here knows that the WWE doesn't know. Vince and the WWE has more knowledge of the business than all of us and the rest of the IWC combined, and that is a fact. If anything, Vince and the McMahon family also has way more respect and love for the sport than all of us combined as well.

As for lack of competition being the reason of the wrestling community's downfall, I also dissagree with that, as a matter of fact, I have always dissagreed on that. I still think that probably the greatest thing to happen in wrestling was Vince buying the WCW. You bring up good points, but that still doesn't change the fact that during the time when the WWF's rattings were at it's height, the WWF was partners with MTV, and Vince was reconized in the media. You could go off and say that the WWF was somewhat of a fad back then.

You have also failed to mention that things are not really different now with TNA. WCW back in 2000, provided little or no competition, just like TNA today. TNA going out of business (which is a strong possiblity) will have very little impact, because TNA in general is redundant. For more proof, the WWF started to loose much of its viewers in late 2000 and early 2001, and the rest of the viewers after WM18, so again, Vince buying WCW was not the main cause.

If anything I believe that the WWE should retain its monopoly over the wrestling community. It will keep the wrestling community intergraded, instead of a warzone like the monday night wars. It also goes along with much of my socialism beliefs with industries.

If there was anything in general that ruined wrestilng, it would have to been competition itself. It virtually lead to the downfall of the sport in general. If it wasn't for the monday night wars, the WWF/E would never had to resort to adult themes, and offensive ideas just to boost rattings. To be honest, if the WWE was more traditionalistic (without fantasy-like or adult themes), I would think that the WWE would be PERFECT.

[Faster Pussycat!]

Joe said:

If anything, Vince and the McMahon family also has way more respect and love for the sport than all of us combined as well.

No, absolutely not.

[Trent Matsunoshin]

"I dissagree with a few things there. First off the wrestling world in general isn't in a "re-building" stage. It is in a slump, or more technically, a recession. It happened in the early 90s, when the WWF was scrambling for big names such as Lex Luger and Diesel, just like what the WWE is doing right now with the "new talent". I said it before and I will say it again, things in the general wrestling world will just get worse, before things get any better. At one point I thought that things were going to get somewhat better, but things are just the same, even though I do admit that the WWE came a way from 2003."

Maybe so, but why would the WWE try to make things better when they no longer have any real motivation?

"There is nothing you, me, or anyone here knows that the WWE doesn't know."

I wouldn't say all that, things tend to get overlooked when you have a monopoly, especially when you effectively have direct influence and control over what the masses see and don't see.

"Vince and the WWE has more knowledge of the business than all of us and the rest of the IWC combined, and that is a fact. If anything, Vince and the McMahon family also has way more respect and love for the sport than all of us combined as well."

If the McMahons had any real respect for the sport of wrestling, they would have never resorted to sports entertainment. The only thing Vince cares about when it comes to his company is the bottom line.

"As for lack of competition being the reason of the wrestling community's downfall, I also dissagree with that, as a matter of fact, I have always dissagreed on that. I still think that probably the greatest thing to happen in wrestling was Vince buying the WCW. You bring up good points, but that still doesn't change the fact that during the time when the WWF's rattings were at it's height, the WWF was partners with MTV, and Vince was reconized in the media. You could go off and say that the WWF was somewhat of a fad back then."

Vince McMahon was, is, and has always been the figurehead of the wrestling business, this goes back to when he was doing color commentary on Superstars back in the day. He was a media figure before either of us were even born. The WWE partnered with MTV for exposure to a younger, gen-x audience just to keep up with WCW's relentless marketing scheme of promoting themselves to NBA fans through the TNT playoff run and through younger fanbased events such as Spring Break. WCW was attracting new, young fans and the WWE had to follow suit.

"You have also failed to mention that things are not really different now with TNA. WCW back in 2000, provided little or no competition, just like TNA today. TNA going out of business (which is a strong possiblity) will have very little impact, because TNA in general is redundant. For more proof, the WWF started to loose much of its viewers in late 2000 and early 2001, and the rest of the viewers after WM18, so again, Vince buying WCW was not the main cause."

WCW forced the WWE to have a quality product in 96-99, and effectively killed themselves doing it. Vince buying WCW is merely a formality. 96-99 acquired a new fanbase, it's just a shame the WWE couldn't retain that base after 2000. And since the WWE is the only wrestling program exposed to the masses regularly, Feds like TNA never had the chance to get to that lost fanbase, so in the end, wrestling loses....ALL of wrestling loses.

"If anything I believe that the WWE should retain its monopoly over the wrestling community. It will keep the wrestling community intergraded, instead of a warzone like the monday night wars. It also goes along with much of my socialism beliefs with industries."

US-based businesses thrive on competition due to the consumer-oriented society we have become. Monopolies have proven to be bad for big business because our democracy is designed to feed our economy through corporate competition, giving smaller companies a better chance at making a name for themselves, companies trying to monopolize (see: Wal-Mart) tend to be scrutinized for whatever reason (for Wal-Mart it's hiring practices and corporate bullying, for the WWE and for Microsoft it was multiple attempts at buying out the competition, for EA Sports it was the doling out for exclusivity in certain sports genres, effectively crippling the competition). Monopolies tend to lose out in the long run and I think that the WWE will lose big very soon.

"If there was anything in general that ruined wrestilng, it would have to been competition itself. It virtually lead to the downfall of the sport in general. If it wasn't for the monday night wars, the WWF/E would never had to resort to adult themes, and offensive ideas just to boost rattings. To be honest, if the WWE was more traditionalistic (without fantasy-like or adult themes), I would think that the WWE would be PERFECT."

How does competition hurt? A good product sells itself, the WWE right now is not a good product, and revenue sheets and PPV buyrates confirm it. I think the WWE needs it.

[brockandsable]

floorstare said:

so, yeah, in your opinion, is the internet ruining wrestling?

I think it is a great help for when I miss RAW or Smackdown!. It enables me to catch up on the details of show so I can keep up to par.

[eCo]

Trent, I think that many of your comments are uttermost crap.

First off:

I wouldn't say all that, things tend to get overlooked when you have a monopoly, especially when you effectively have direct influence and control over what the masses see and don't see.

Hmmm, have you had any exprience runing a wrestling fed? no? well how about running a multi-billion dollar corperation- oh wait, no experience there either huh? Vince McMahon is seeings everything from all angles. You and me only see things from a VERY limited view. Vince and the writters may be desperate, but who else is able to run the WWE? Crazy Ralph?

If the McMahons had any real respect for the sport of wrestling, they would have never resorted to sports entertainment. The only thing Vince cares about when it comes to his company is the bottom line.

Turning the sport into sport entertainment was the only way possible to keep the WWF alive. You all hate to admit this but professional wrestling IS FAKE. Now, now don't cry kiddos, because if there was no athletic workout plans for the wrestlers, pro-wrestling wouldn't even be considered a sport at all, and I got this from someone who knows wrestling really well. Therefore all of the outcomes are fixed. If any other sport had a fixed outcome, any owner would have put a storyline with it.

Anyhow, the McMahon family will always have more knowledge, respect, and loyalty to professional wrestling. Everything they make decessions on are based on their company, because that is the only way for them to SURVIVE, even if it means straying away from the sport aspect, wether they like to do it or not. You kids can call them poopy-heads all you want, but fact remains that they are people who have to make money to survive.

Trent, you do make some good points but I also notice that you are also a neo-WCW fan, and many times you blame a lot of the shit happening today on the WWE itself. There really is no REAL reason to bash the WWE for what they do because I bet that if RoH was the leading brand in wrestling, they would resort to boogymen and in ring marriages. Its all about business being first.

[Faster Pussycat!]

But only if you run a business. Gabe runs ROH as a Wrestling Promotion, and as a result he runs the most successful Independent fed in America.