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Post by eCo on Apr 6, 2006 23:26:47 GMT 1
^ Ok, there is one thing you forgot to take in account. Randy Orton is not just a "good looking guy", but at the same time, he is also a big guy. This is one thing that makes him different from the crusierweights. Another reason why Orton is in the main event, was because he can handle it. Orton has A LOT of respect backstage because he can handle the pressure at his age. You simply cannot deny that fact. Not every wrestler can do that. As for Orton having Medieocre skills, I also dissagree with that. Orton may not be the most skilled wrestler, but there is one reason why he isn't doing backflips around the ring: He is considered to be a big guy. He is 6' 5", and weighs over 280 pounds. He also has the same muscle mass as Triple H. Oh, and even at his large size, he is still extremely mobile and agile. IMO, out of all of the big guys in the WWE, Orton is the most agile. He also has good endurance to, and in long wrestling matches, he doesn't tire out that fast, unlike other wrestlers. This all leads to my conclusion, that many internet fans simply don't like big guys. They always compare CWs to people like Orton, while they have completely different styles. i just hope orton and batista never return, and how about giving smackdown SOME FRIGGING TALENT, jesus there whole show is the WWE CW division, RAW has all of the HW, it looks like a midget wrestling show on smackdown at sometimes. Loo kat benoit hes like 1 ft tall, reys only 5 inches, and T.LO is an old fool he does a weird dance. O, and whatever happened to Palmer Cannon did he get released with the midgets he brought. I hope he leaves real soon and takes the boogey man with him. What you said made zero sense, but what more do I expect from you. Batista may not be the most skilled wrestler, but no one can deny that he does what he can do to put a match together. You especially have to give him credit at his age also. As for Orton, you can't even compare Orton to Batista, Orton may not be perfect, but he is only 25 years old. As for the rest of your post, I couldn't understand it. You make Simz look like an English teacher. You need to type in real actual words, use capitals without going on cap rants, and try to exclude the word "midgits" in your post, no matter how AWsome they are.
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Post by Stare on Apr 6, 2006 23:52:50 GMT 1
I can deny the fact that Batista does what he has to do to put a match together.
Batista is not very good at stringing matches together. He has to be carried by someone like HHH to have a credible match. He has improved considerably, because in late 2003, not even the likes of HBK & Jericho could carry him. Batista is decent in the ring, not terrible at all, but he can't be stuck in there with . . .say, JBL . . .and have a great one-on-one wrestling match.
Also, credit should be given to the writing team, because Batista is living off a storyline that was dealt to him almost a year and a half ago, and it is still getting him cheered. He also has that badass look.
I've always liked Orton in the ring. I think he still has a long way to go, but I think he will become truly great one day. Like Ecos said, he's athletic, agile, quick, and he also may be the absolute best at selling in the WWE at the moment
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Post by Spackle on Apr 7, 2006 0:15:40 GMT 1
What? Dude, who mentioned flips? Jack Evans is proof that flips don't make a good wrestler. No one is saying that because Orton can't or won't do a moonsault he's a bad wrestler. He's a bad wrestler because he blows. Better then say, Snitsky or Mark Henry, but he doesn't deserve to be in upper-midcard, let alone the main event.
And whats this about big guys? Samoa Joe, Bam Bam Bigelow, Vader, Kane, Undertaker, Colt Cabana, Kenta Kobashi, Abyss, hell, even Brock Lesnar: All guys who were or are better then Orton, and are either taller or very close to his height. And considering the average height in WWE is somewhere around 6'5", Orton's not that big. Also, for the most part, wrestlers are whiny cunts. Orton can take the pressure because he is paid A LOT, more then he or any other wrestler deserves, and as much as wrestlers like to bitch about it, it's not that hard. Especially if you're in WWE, where you don't even have to do that much work.
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Post by Reaper on Apr 7, 2006 0:28:51 GMT 1
I'm gonna have to disagree with the fact that Orton is a BIG guy, he is a TALL guy, he isn't muscular like Triple H, he's pretty slender considering his height. Triple H and Hogan have about the same mass, Orton is kind of like a pole though. He's toned and got some minor developments but overall he's not massively muscular. And the fact is, Orton is more comparable to a Cruiserweight than say your average main eventer. Hell I'd be willing to bet that Orton could probably do all the spot shows in the world, but WWE is afraid of either putting on a show that People like, or they are afraid of some minor injury.
And then its said that the Internet fans dislike Bigger guys. Thats not true. As a matter of fact, most Internet fans like Triple H's in ring ability when. They don't like the fact that it always has to seem like a one person show built around just him. Brock Lesnar was big, and people everywhere loved that guy. He was the dream hoss basically. He could out wrestle just about anybody, he was agile and quick and didn't always have to be grounded. I think people would be more interested in Lashley if the WWE took the same approach with him. He's a big dude, who can wrestle...but he needs some coaching when he talks. I happen to think Lashley is impressive, but a lot of people tend to not care. Also Paul Burchill, the only thing people say is how lame the Pirate thing is, but they don't dislike him.
With Orton, you have a mediocre wrestler, who can piss people off... yet at the same time he has the Jeff Hardy effect and makes the women (who are already in the audience) soak the seat. So really thats all he's been built to. He hasn't gotten any better or worse since he was with Evolution, and if all they are gonna do is push him on his selling ability and the women having a collective orgasm, then chances are he will never get any better than the half ass level he's at now. Orton can come and go, and Smackdown wouldn't gain or lose any viewers. His suspension however MAY ruin the main event for the house show coming to my town though. He was supposed to be in a 3 way Cage match with Mysterio and Angle. Nothing that can't be worked around though, so no big shit.
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Post by Faster Pussycat! on Apr 7, 2006 0:53:08 GMT 1
Eco, where are you getting your facts? wwe.com has Randy at 6'4", 245 lbs. I don't know who respects him because all I ever hear of him news wise is how he pissing off someone or another backstage. I'm confident that Orton's only gotton where he is because of his look, and because of who his daddy and grand-daddy are.
Once again, WWE's Fanbase = Ivan Pavlov's Dog
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Post by Spackle on Apr 7, 2006 0:54:44 GMT 1
It's just his look. I doubt Vince remembers his kin.
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Post by eCo on Apr 7, 2006 1:37:28 GMT 1
Eco, where are you getting your facts? wwe.com has Randy at 6'4", 245 lbs. I don't know who respects him because all I ever hear of him news wise is how he pissing off someone or another backstage. I'm confident that Orton's only gotton where he is because of his look, and because of who his daddy and grand-daddy are. Once again, WWE's Fanbase = Ivan Pavlov's Dog I got my sources from another internet site, aside from WWE.com. NIN, the WWE is infamous for giving out false ages, heights, wieghts, etc. As for Orton gaining respect from the lookeroom, I got that from another website, I think 411mania, as I recall. I got my sources. On a disturbing note NIN, I'm reallly suprised you bought information from the WWE that quickly. You are the last person who would just buy into false information like that, and I even respected you for that. Infact, if you look all other websites, Orton's height is 6'5". When Orton first started in the WWE, he was only 6'4", but now he is bigger. Floorstare, as for Batista, you did admit that he improved greatly. However, many other wrestlers in his shoes did not. Take Mark Henry for example, he got a 10 year contract with the WWE, and he felt that he had no need to improve his skill. Batista is 39 years old right now, and he still claims that he does what he can do to get better at the sport, and contribute to the WWE, especially after Eddie's death. Spackle, I have to dissagree with your comments. Aside from Samoa Joe, the IWC as bashed other names you mentioned numerous times. I was really suprised when you said that Bigelow, Undertaker, and Kane are better wrestlers than Orton. You just stated that "Orton blows" but you had nothing behind your statement what so ever. I suspect that you simply hate Orton because he is favored by the WWE. Reaper, Orton is considered to be a big guy. The average height for professional wrestlers are 6'-6'2". In my book, being 6'5" automatically makes someone a big guy. After all, Batista is also 6'5" (plus he has more muscle mass). Hogan has more muscle mass than HHH, not by a lot but enough to make it obvious. HHH and Orton almost have the same muscle mass, sure HHH is SLIGHTLY stronger than Orton, but not by that much. Tallness equals being big. This is why I also consider The Rock, Edge, and JBL to be big guys also.
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Post by Stare on Apr 7, 2006 1:43:05 GMT 1
I think the first paragraph, aimed at NIN, was a very narrow statement to make. If WWE lied about Randy Orton's height, I'm sure they'd make him taller, and not shorter. And, what makes you think the site you are looking at has it right? To believe that they have personally gotten every wrestler on a scale is a bit far-fetched, I would much sooner trust what WWE says about it's own superstars than some site that has probably never even seen the guy in person, if so, I bet they havent talked to him, and if they have, I'm sure they didnt measure him.
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Post by Faster Pussycat! on Apr 7, 2006 1:47:08 GMT 1
Eco, are you saying the WWE lies to people? So you're admitting that Vince doesn't give a flying fuck about the people that watch his product, and that he'd sell them all to Communist China for slave labor quicker than you can say, "Greeting Wal-Mart shoppers." I know they shave stats a lot but really, OWW has Orton at 265, which is still way off from your wild guess of 280. Pavlov's dog.
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Post by eCo on Apr 7, 2006 1:59:04 GMT 1
Yes, I am saying that the WWE lies to people, just like every corperation, country, or organization that is in power these days. The WWE wants to potray Orton as more of a young athletic person, rather than a big guy, so they made him an inch shorter. If they could the would even make him shorter if they have too, but 6'4" is the shortest height that is buyable. Do you people not notice that he towers over most superstars?
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Post by Spackle on Apr 7, 2006 3:51:14 GMT 1
Yes, I am saying that the WWE lies to people, just like every corperation, country, or organization that is in power these days. The WWE wants to potray Orton as more of a young athletic person, rather than a big guy, so they made him an inch shorter. If they could the would even make him shorter if they have too, but 6'4" is the shortest height that is buyable. Do you people not notice that he towers over most superstars? Now Eco, while I may be part of the IWC just as much as any wrestling fan with a computer, I am not one of those arrogant shit-stains who believe that just because it's WWE, it can't be good, and that you need no less then 20 kinds of flips, 12 variations of an armbar and a draw-ending to a 60-minute match to be considereed a good match. I know I come off like that, but that's usually because I'm trying to be funny. Or I'm fucking with NIN, who's a Cena mark at heart. (He doesn't want people to know, so, ya know, don't highlight that. Or do, and start fucking with his head.) I don't really watch the shows anymore, but when ever I do, it just doesn't hold my interest. They get better writers, more interesting gimmicks, and hell, the wrestlers they have could pass on entertainment alone. I'll just watch ROH if I want to see good wrestling. It just seems that they're not getting the wrestling right, and the "entertainment" makes me feel embarassed to call myself a wrestling fan. And at one time Undertaker, Kane and Bam Bam were pretty good wrestlers. I don't care to watch any of them now, but they were good. Purely wrestling wise, they entertained me more then Orton ever has. Same with their gimmicks, which speaks volumes about Bam considering his gimmick was just "Hey, I'm big and have a tatooed head." Maybe it's personal preference, but I just find Orton boring. He does nothing incredibly special, and while he's not someone capable of setting wrestling into a depression (Cena, but thats another argument altogether) he's not really that good. He has some chance of getting better, and possibly being the head of the company (Not for a long time, and WWE has to fix other things too... such as the writing team) but if WWE just shoves him down our throats now, what reason does he have to improve his wrestling skills? I just think that there are people who are much better then him being passed over while he gets an undeserved main event push.
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Post by Stare on Apr 7, 2006 4:36:41 GMT 1
Yes, I am saying that the WWE lies to people, just like every corperation, country, or organization that is in power these days. The WWE wants to potray Orton as more of a young athletic person, rather than a big guy, so they made him an inch shorter. If they could the would even make him shorter if they have too, but 6'4" is the shortest height that is buyable. Do you people not notice that he towers over most superstars? Yeah, we've noticed, or at least I have. So, one second, we're talking about how Vince loves giants, and how the WWE likes big guys, and the next minute, we're talking about how they're making Orton shorter to make him look more like a young athletic person? Right . . . I think what I'm trying to say here is clear
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Post by Simz on Apr 8, 2006 19:16:04 GMT 1
Ok, as I haven't posted in this thread I'm going with the title. I don't like the idea of Orton off tv for 2 months. SD needs him now. And People really need to stop bitching about Orton's ring skills. They are great IMO. They are not technical. But he can sell and string a good match together. (Waits for ecos to bitch)
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Apr 9, 2006 1:37:28 GMT 1
I like Orton but now I guess SD! will suffer without a good main event heel. Oh yeah, on every videogame it says he is 6'6. So thats why he towers over everyone. I also think Eco is just trying to argue with everyone so if he argues, it isn't a post that I would get all emotional over.
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Post by eCo on Apr 9, 2006 2:47:08 GMT 1
^ Oh, and I think you need to type in proper english, and make statements that actually make sense. This is why I seriously question that you are 29 years old. Ok, as I haven't posted in this thread I'm going with the title. I don't like the idea of Orton off tv for 2 months. SD needs him now. And People really need to stop bitching about Orton's ring skills. They are great IMO. They are not technical. But he can sell and string a good match together. (Waits for ecos to bitch)Was that a f..f...flame? Seriously, you were flaming at me in a previous thread also. Simz, if you didn't make that statement, I would have actually backed your post up, because I agreed with what you said. So why would you continue to bash me, while we are obviously on the same side?
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Post by Reaper on Apr 9, 2006 2:55:25 GMT 1
I don't see how *waits for Eco to bitch* (which have done in a number of threads) constitutes a flame, chief. Nice try though. Had he said "*waits for that Eco Bitch*", then I could understand where you're coming from. As far as I can tell, you just proved him right becaused you bitched about a non flame. Kudos to that. You guys should just kiss and make up already.
I still think Orton needs a little more work before being put in the main event scene, and to you earlier saying that he can handle pressure...obviously he can't, since the only reason he isn't fired right now is the fact that Smackdown had him in the Main event...due to him constantly breaking rules. Had he been able to handle pressure, then he would have realized that he fucked up before and that he shouldn't keep pushing management's buttons. Of course, if he still doesn't get it after this...well then Randy Orton will wind up on another "Breaking News:" report in the dirt sheets, except this time it'll read "Randy Orton Fired!"
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Apr 9, 2006 5:49:35 GMT 1
^ Oh, and I think you need to type in proper english, and make statements that actually make sense. This is why I seriously question that you are 29 years old. How did I not use proper English? I just think you don't really like anyone here. Oh yeah, if you doubt that I am 29 years old. You can just suck my fucking cock you immature little bitch. There. Give me warning. I don't care.
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Post by Stare on Apr 9, 2006 6:25:34 GMT 1
I'm locking this.
And you're both getting warnings.
Ecos, I'm going to let you know this once. If you make any more comments that I believe have the sole purpose of "getting under someone's skin", you're going to get a warning, no questions asked. You knew by saying that that it would make HBK mad, there was nothing else saying that could achieve. That falls under the "don't start shit just to start shit" guideline that we use numerous times, and the fact that you are walking that line everytime I turn around is starting to really get under my skin.
HBK, sorry, but you reacted in a total opposite way than you should have. Ignore what is said, that's the best way to deal with it. I know you felt you had to counter what he said, but you were just being baited in to that one. Don't get drug into this "bitch-fest" that many on p2p seem to be getting into in the past couple of days.
LOCKED
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