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Post by Spackle on Jul 29, 2006 20:15:16 GMT 1
Dude, no one was watching. They came up with shitty gimmick after shitty gimmick, and shitty angle after shitty angle. They were doing very badly. They were losing money and throwing shit at the wall, hoping anything would stick. Now, they got better in about '95, but WCW was light years ahead of them in terms of wrestling and overall presentation. They even managed to get people to care about Sid Vicious. Do you know how fucking hard that is? In fact, until about late '96, you couldn't even compare the two because WCW was so much goddamn better. They continued to be equally as good or even better then WWE until about late '99, where shit just fell apart, and they became one of the worst periods in wrestling history, possibly even slightly worse then how WWE is now.
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Post by Stare on Jul 29, 2006 22:25:57 GMT 1
^Speaks the truth.
Late 95 was when the WWE came "back on the radar" so to speak.
And Ecos, you are so full of it. The only person they (WCW) made famous who wasn't already an established name was Goldberg. He was the only guy who was ever put over all the "veterans" that was a homegrown star. Booker T didn't get the respect he deserved until after they were gone. And, if that isn't enough for you, the facts can't lie, because great wreslters such as Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Big Show, Saturn, and Dean Malenko left because nobody was having the spotlight except for the "BIG NAMES".
While that was going on, the WWE were putting guys like Triple H, Stone Cold, The Rock, Mick Foley, & Kurt Angle on the map who had never been heard of (by the common wrestling fan anyways). Then you had your guys who were in factions that were popular, like The New Age Outaws. And ON TOP OF THAT, you had guys like Benoit, Jericho, & Big Show (and Guerrero at times, though he wasn't used much due to his personal issues) who were actually having the light put on them that they couldnt get in the WCW.
Thanks God guys like Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Kevin Nash, Ric Flair, & many more jumped ship because the WWE would've had no reason to create stars. I mean, think about it, why wouldn't you put the spotlight on the guys who are bringing in the dough and that are world reknown?
WCW's mistake was not building stars past the already established guys. While they had a DYNAMIC hit with the NWO Storyline, it was mainly fueled because Hulk Hogan was a heel, and at that time, that was as good as money in your pocket. But, thanks to their lack of respect for not creating stars, they had no one to fall back on when the big names were gone.
I keep getting the feeling that I'm talking to a wall, because it isn't like all of this is my opinion . . . it's been stated by guys that you may have heard of . . . like, oh I dont know . . . Vince McMahon? Eric Bishcoff? The wrestlers involved? Take their word for it.
WCW failed because it didnt create future stars . . . that's even been said on the DVD (Monday Night Wars) by both parties.
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Post by eCo on Jul 30, 2006 5:08:27 GMT 1
Stare, you were praising Spackle, but everything you said was in contrast to him. I know you were stating the point that Big names have their flaws, but you backed up what I said on my previous post. I understand that big names have their price, but it is still possible to have big names around and still create new talent, the WWE managed to do that in 2002-2003 with Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Chris Jericho, Big Show and even Chris Beniot and Eddie Guerrero. We all agree that WCW really didn't make names, and my whole point is that the what the WCW really had was a few billion dollar contracts to keep people like Hogan in the future. Spackle, when you said how shitty the WWF was, I hope you were meaning AFTER the Hogan times. Because during the time of Hogan (when I first started watching wrestling), the WWF had a wide audience. As a matter of fact, it was considered to be the golden age for the WWF. Shit, I was only 5 years old and I can still remember some of the promos and angles in the WWF, I even cried on two occasions (during that time, I thought it was real). People like Hulk Hogan, and the Ult. Warrior were like real life super heroes coming to life. If you were talking about the time during the Steriod issues, or the times of Yokozuna and Lex Luger than you are right. During that time there were clowns, garbage men, and white guys who called themselves Cuban refugees. Sure during the time of Diesel and the whole Clique vs Hart family war was a little interesting but Spackle, you were right that the WCW was way ahead of the WWF during 1996. But you can't say that during 1998 when fans were turning to the WWF one by one. The WWF not only had their own Kayfabe enviroment with a rebelious theme, but they had new names that can be compared to people like Hogan. I truly believe that the WCW really turned into shit when assholes like Vince Russo and Kevin Sullivan took over and started dumb shit. Sullivan was starting backstage drama with the talent in the WCW lockeroom, while Russo was being an uttermost asshole to Hogan. WCW can't even be compared to the WWF during the dark ages because it was so horrible. FUCK! even their video games were horrible (remember WCW backstage revolution?). Overrall, the WWF was the better company.
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Post by Spackle on Jul 30, 2006 7:31:06 GMT 1
Yeah, I was talking about all that time between Hogan and the Attitude era. Shit was pitiful.
And during '98, I'd say they were pretty close. WWF was making all the big stars, but the under card suffered, where WCW was the exact opposite. WWF was the winner then, but WCW wasn't too far behind. Then in 2000, WCW fell apart while WWF had in my opinion it's best year ever.
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Post by Stare on Jul 30, 2006 19:49:37 GMT 1
^ok, I must have misunderstood something somehwere, cause I am totally lost right now.
When the WWE was creating stars like Stone Cold, they were building up their mid-card and under-card. They Had The Rock, Degeneration X (when it was NOA, X-Pac, Chyna, and HHH), The Nation of Domination, Val Venis, Goldust, Mankind. All of these guys were not Main Event status in 1998. HHH and Owen Hart were feuding over the Intercontinental title, and The Rock feuded with HHH later when The Nation & DX Began to feud. You had great storylines surrounding Goldust, and Val Venis was the perfect Mid-Carder. Mankind was feuding with top guys like The Undertaker. Kane had came in and turned things up. There were plenty of stars in every category that the WWE was utilizing well in 1998.
1997 was the shitty year for the WWE, in the first half. Wrestlemania 13 . . . nuff said. They had Psycho Sid & Undertaker kick off the beginning of the year. Then, Stone Cold started to rise about mid-way through the year, and Bret Hart had re-entered the title picture, and Shawn Michaels & HHH started DX and the Hell in The Cell was invented, and Kane Debuted . . . overall, it was a very good start for the year to come. The glory years for the WWE were 1998-2000, IMO. That's when The Rock, HHH, Stone Cold, Mick Foley, Kane, and Vince McMahon came into the spotlight and became household names.
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Post by The Executioner on Jul 31, 2006 21:27:49 GMT 1
The 80's were the best...nuff said.
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Post by Keith Williams on Jul 31, 2006 22:04:21 GMT 1
Well the 80's were a pretty good time in wrestling. Not only in the wwf/wwe but also in the nwa/wcw. I mean look at some of the superstars that were on both shows during the 80's.
WWF[/b] Hulk Hogan Rowdy Roddy Piper Junkyard Dog "Macho Man" Randy Savage Jake "the snake" Roberts Paul "Mr. Wonderful" Orndorff Bobby "the brain" Hennan The British Bulldogs The Hart Foundation Killer Bees The Rougoure Brothers
NWA[/b] Ric Flair Barry Windham Arn Anderson Tully Blanchard Dusty Rhodes Road Warriors Midnight Express Rock and Roll Express "The Russian Nightmare" Nikita Koloff Magnum T.A. The Freebirds Jim Cornette
Now I could go on and on with listing names that were in each organization during the 80's. Didn't matter which federation that you watched, you were guaranteed to see great matches and wrestlers. The only dark period was when Cowboy Bill Watts ran nwa and had that whole barred from coming off the top rope/ throw people over the top rope and get dq deal.
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Aug 10, 2006 16:37:40 GMT 1
My close friend of twenty years works for TSN in Canada (Former broadcaster for WWE RAW) had sent me a little news about why RAW left TSN to go the The Score.
WWE RAW Failing? Over Hockey?
In recent talks. TSN has decided to let go of RAW which they have been programming since day one. The reasons were unknown to Vince McMahon and the WWE but now the reason is simple. Canada loves Hockey. On December 19th, TSN decided to go head to head against CBC at 9:00 pm. On TSN: Monday Night RAW. On CBC: Toronto Maple Leafs vs The Ottawa Senators. TSN pulled a 2.9 while CBC pulled a 5.0 rating. TSN decided to go at it again on January the 16th with the same shows except Toronto was facing Buffalo Sabres. The result was shocking. TSN had a 2.0 rating while hockey had a 5.3 rating. TSN was apalled and needed to do something. So on August the fifth. TSN had axed Monday Night Raw. Hockey was coming up in October and TSN wanted to have the very first game which happens to be the Toronto Maple Leafs vs. the Ottawa Senators. It looks like Canada just doesn't want anymore Wrestling after Hockey season starts.
I think RAW might be going in a downward spiral (At Least in Canada) over my favourite sport. When the NHL playoffs were on at 9:00. RAW had to be pre-empted. Thoughts?
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Post by brockandsable on Aug 10, 2006 22:16:28 GMT 1
1997 was the shitty year for the WWE, in the first half. Wrestlemania 13 . . . nuff said. They had Psycho Sid & Undertaker kick off the beginning of the year. Then, Stone Cold started to rise about mid-way through the year, and Bret Hart had re-entered the title picture, and Shawn Michaels & HHH started DX and the Hell in The Cell was invented, and Kane Debuted . . . . I wouldn't call that the shit year; quite the contrary. I'd say it's the year things began to turn around. 1995 was pretty bad when the main event to the biggest event of the year was headlined by an NFL football star with a heavy addiction to coke taking on a fat man in a fire suit who had a heavy addiction to coke. What you said was a bit contradictory. The beginning of 1997wasn't the best storyline-wise (save for maybe the Bret Hart/Austin fiasco where Austin's popularity was on the rise while Bret was becoming one of the most hated) but the things heat up around June or so when what you mentioned above began to take place. In my eyes, however, 1996 had to be the pit year. I don't why but at that time I couldn't buy Shawn Michaels as a legit champion for the same reason I couldn't buy Mysterio as a legit champion this year. Then you had Ahmed Johnson with an upsing of momentum go down with kidney problems and that murdered what was probably one of the greatest storylines of the summer (Ahmed/Farooq). Couple that with Nash, Hall and a host of others bailing for WCW with the rise of the NWO, it's understandable to see why I stopped watching.
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Aug 11, 2006 1:13:58 GMT 1
I have to agree with you there.
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Post by Stare on Aug 11, 2006 3:12:11 GMT 1
Read that again . . . and then again . . . then you might understand. Oh! That's right, he meant the first half.
Anyways, my grammar mistakes aside, I loved 1996, but that's because I'm a Shawn Michaels mark. I was never into wrestling as much as I was that year. But, that's just me.
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Aug 11, 2006 3:14:33 GMT 1
HBK was the best as a heel in DX.
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Post by eCo on Aug 14, 2006 17:10:00 GMT 1
I really never liked 1996 or 1997. Nothing was ever structured in the WWF, and in 1996 random things were being thrown at. The whole fact that fucking Sid was the champ made the product crap. Along with that there were horrible gimmicks that I just hated such as Doink the Clown and MoM. During the whole Bret vs America angle was uttermost shit in my opinion. It made me sick how the fans could just give up on the hero and choose the anti hero to be their king. This is why I believe there is such a flaw in democracy, but that is a whole other rant. After the screwjob the WWF resorted to unnessesary adult angles. Things did go better when other big names such as the Undertaker and The Rock got involved in the whole Austin vs McMahon angle, because that's when things go more constructed and balanced. I started to love the WWF when The Rock turned face and during the times of the Corperate Ministry. After that, things went uphill.
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Post by Stare on Aug 15, 2006 1:59:51 GMT 1
Yeah, the fact that Psycho Sid beat Shawn Michaels at one ppv and Bret Hart at the next was a disgrace. Then again, Sid was WAAAY over at the time.
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Post by Keith Williams on Aug 24, 2006 20:08:52 GMT 1
Found this and thought it was intresting. Its about the Brian Pillman DVD that is coming out soon.
From a source who just got an advance copy of the upcoming Brian Pillman DVD: "I got advance copies of this yesterday and it's just fantastic. The main feature is the usual excellent fare from these WWE sets. Lots on Brian's medical problems as a kid and his struggle to make a name for himself in Pro football. Excellent background from Pillman's sisters and former football coach. Some great clips are included from football days and even home video footage of Brian and Melanie's wedding. The doc moves swiftly through his early Calgary days to talk about his rise in WCW and happily includes a very lengthy portion on the rise and fall of the Hollywood Blonds. We then focus on the conception of the Loose Cannon gimmick and the downturn in Brian's life following the Humvee wreck. This DVD really is a fantastic look at Brian's life with extensive interview footage from Steve Austin, Jim Ross, Melanie Pillman, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, Bruce Prichard, Mick Foley, William Regal, Arn Anderson etc. The stories and memories from Austin and Ross alone make this a must see.
Matches:
Bad Company vs. Midnight Cowboys (Stampede, 4/23/88),
Pillman vs. Lex Luger (NWA Halloween Havoc, 10/28/89), Pillman & Tom Zenk vs. The Freebirds (NWA Tag Title Tournament Finals, 2/12/90),
Pillman, Sting & The Steiners vs. The Four Horsemen (Wargames, WCW Wrestle War 91, 2/24/91),
Pillman vs. Ricky Morton (WCW Halloween Havoc 91, 10/27/91),
Pillman & El Gigante vs.Barry Windham & Arn Anderson (WCW Clash XV, 6/14/91),
Pillman & BarryWindham vs. Johnny Gunn & Tom Zenk (WCW Saturday Night, 12/26/92),
Hollywood Blonds vs. Dos Hombres (Cage, WCW Slamboree 93, 5/23/93),
Pillman, Sting & Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin, Rick Rude & Paul Orndorff (Thundercage, WCW Superbrawl IV, 2/20/94),
Pillman vs. Jushin Liger (Debut WCW Nitro, 9/4/95),
Pillman vs. Dean Malenko (WCW Nitro, 1/22/96),
Pillman vs. Eddie Guerrero (WCW Clash XXXII, 1/23/96),
Pillman vs. Steve Austin (Raw, 6/16/97),
Hart Foundation vs. LOD, Goldust, Ken Shamrock & Steve Austin (WWF IYH Canadian Stampede, 7/4/97),
Pillman vs.Goldust (WWF Ground Zero, 9/7/97),
and Pillman vs. Jushin Liger (WCWSuperbrawl II, 2/29/92)."
Looks like I might have to be picking this one up for my collection when it finally comes out.
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Post by Stare on Aug 24, 2006 21:43:37 GMT 1
Yeah, it sounds good. I'm a big fan of the WWE DVD's that chronicles the story of the superstar. I was a bit sickened that Undertaker's DVD and HBK's From The Vault didn't include stories, cause those are two superstars I would've loved to see have a bio.
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Post by Aladdin on Aug 24, 2006 22:03:04 GMT 1
Check out "Undertaker: This Is My Yard" or something to that effect. That choronicles his career. I love those as well. Bret's DVD is perfect. First interview & story of career, then his best matches on a separate disc.
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Post by Aladdin on Aug 26, 2006 23:52:45 GMT 1
Listen to this. i was just watching the new McMahon DVD. In it Steph said that Vince wanted to do an angle that he was the father of her baby! How fucking screwed up. Once she shot it down, he asked if they could do it so that Shane was the father! Vince is losing it.
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Post by Stare on Aug 27, 2006 0:26:06 GMT 1
Yeah, that was on lordsofpain.net a while back. The Best Buy in Lexington, KY released it a tuesday early by accident, and yeah . . . it was gross to say the least.
The Bret Hart DVD was laid out very well, but made me sick. After watching the DVD, I can say that Bret Hart DEFINETLY had an oversized ego as rumored. That guy is in love with himself (says the guy who is a Shawn Michaels Fan)
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Aug 27, 2006 4:22:37 GMT 1
^Yes he does. Eventhough I am Canadian, I can see right through his lies.
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Post by Faster Pussycat! on Aug 27, 2006 7:57:22 GMT 1
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Post by brockandsable on Sept 12, 2006 22:22:20 GMT 1
What? Did you people stop watching wrestling or somewthing? These threads have been inactive for days. Shame on you.
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Post by KillerSundin (Formerly HBK) on Sept 12, 2006 22:40:26 GMT 1
Actually I have been missing RAW and SD! for awhile. Too busy with my life.
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